Dr. Wayne Dyer

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Judgement, having troubles

quingoff

18-09-2004 02:06:22

Judging is and has been an aspect of my personality that seems to follow me at many turns in my life, I have from watching Dr. Dyer's lectures and reading POI am trying to what he says playing the match game, match up with source, also other issues brought up in the book, however this judgement thing is a tough nut to crack oops on page 94 of POI on the last paragraph starting line.... Persitently viewing others as dishonest, lazy, sinful and so on may me that you need to feel superior.... The sinful part gets to me, in this age of loose morals, pornography, and a sex sells attitude world, I can't seem to help but judge... Example I hear about the escapades and lifestyles of porn stars on the news and others places, and I find myself seeing that lifestyle as sinful and I guess I see myself superior in a way where my moral fiber is a complet 180 from that. I never grew up in a religious atmosphere, I just grew these morals, my moral standards are high, the way people are in terms of morals, especially my age group around 20, I'm 20, completly disgusts me.

What can I do not to judge not just in the example above but judement overall, is there a page number in POI I can turn too that addresses the judgement issue in deep detail, I'm only on page 95 but I would like to work on the judgement issue soon for I believe it a a major resistance, what have members on this forum done to get that ego aspect out of there lives.

chris knight

18-09-2004 08:36:22

The sinful part gets to me, in this age of loose morals, pornography, and a sex sells attitude world, I can't seem to help but judge... Example I hear about the escapades and lifestyles of porn stars on the news and others places, and I find myself seeing that lifestyle as sinful and I guess I see myself superior in a way where my moral fiber is a complet 180 from that.

Hi and welcome to the discussion. I'm glad you joined us.

You've heard the old saying, "Judge not less ye be judged" ...of course it's true.

A perspective

Who cares if you are superior to those involved in pornography?

Who cares if some people believe pornography is sinful? You always have a choice to ignore it or if you feel strongly about it -- turn your energy from judgement into activism to promote your idea of an alternative.

What if a high percentage of those involved in the porn industry were hard working people just like you and me? We all have talents to contribute to each other.

The human experience is a funny paradox in itself in that we seek to be both separate and different (by allowing our ego to make judgements about ourself and others) while simultaneously we seek to be one with each other without judgement.

Using your terminology, one could assert that judging others in a negative light or comparison is "sinful."

What can I do not to judge not just in the example above but judement overall, is there a page number in POI I can turn too that addresses the judgement issue in deep detail, I'm only on page 95 but I would like to work on the judgement issue soon for I believe it a a major resistance, what have members on this forum done to get that ego aspect out of there lives.

Seek to find the good in yourself first. When you see the good in yourself and know it to be true for you -- you will begin seeking to find the good in others, regardless as to their chosen path.

I welcome others to share their perspective on this topic.

michael S

20-09-2004 09:39:07

Chris Knight said; "What if a high percentage of those involved in the porn industry were hard working people just like you and me? We all have talents to contribute to each other."

Indeed, and some peoples talent is to reduce communication between individuals to nothing more than mutual masturbation. Other folks have the talent to orchestrate the dismantling of the World Trade Centre Towers. Terrorists are "hard working" people too! To reduce another human being to nothing more than a bunch of nerve endings is in itself an act of violence, and this is cultural terrorism. This is ONE of many reasons why quingoff is experiencing problems with "judgement"; he/she is conscious of a hierarchy, and the pornography industry vibrates/throbs, at the bottom of the hierarchial barrel, IMHO. Remember now, Wayne encourages his readers to distance themselves from "low" vibration music, foods, TV etc. So much of the porn industry is linked to drugs, thuggery, exploitation of women and men. The pornography industry can cynically exploit the 1st amendment all they want, see if I care. This has nothing to do with a "holier than thou", Victorian view of sex. I think it runs a bit deeper than that. One promises heaven if you indulge in sex, another promises heaven if you abstain - both are liars! HAs the uninhibited sex as promoted by the High Priest's of Hefner brought as any closer to compassion, trust, and the touch that heals? Have technical manuals on performance, method, technique etc. brought us closer to love? Or do we have more frustrated Viagra pumped ego's than ever before?

Ron

20-09-2004 13:24:35

Michael - judging is what we humans do and all we do as humans - we judge - we judge by making choices in this life - should I do this or that - is this right or is this wrong. And the judging has us chasing our tails in a never-ending circle of chaos and frustrations. Being aware of our judging is a first step in our changing our pattern. We judge another as good or bad, right or wrong, based on what we believe we know - but what do we know? Don Miguel Ruiz calls what we believe we know as the lies that have been told to us through our life - the lies we have come to believe in. These lies cover everything in our life, including who we believe we are as well. Chances are that you saw judgment very strong in your family as a child. You mentioned the last para on pg. 94 and it is a good one to read again and again. Dyer's views are coming in part from his understanding of the Course in Miracles that he quotes from at the top of the page. And here are some excerpts from the para you mention

"How you view others is a projection of how you view yourself. Consistently seeing others as worthless means that you're erecting a roadblock for potential allies."

This may be difficult for you to grasp, but it is true - how you see another is also your view of yourself - perhaps a view that you have hidden away but nonetheless is ever present for you. In your judgment of others, you are stopping the flow of love they have for you, and you for them.

"See others as weak, and you're simultaneously attracting weak energies."

Look at what you are drawing to you - nothing is ever presented to you that you have not requested - that you have not called to you. Accept totally the responsibility for your life and how you see it.

"Persistently seeing others as dishonest, lazy, sinful, and so on may mean that you need to feel superior. Constantly seeing others critically can be a way of compensating for something you fear. But you don't even need to understand this psychological mechanism. All you have to do is recognize how you view others. If there's a pattern of seeing others as failures, you only need to notice the pattern as evidence of what you're attracting into your life."

Now forget for a moment how you see others - the moral issues, etc. You have a need within you to see yourself as better than most - this is nothing more than a ego which has you in its grasp of fears - the only thing ego offers. Now what are you fearing? Now here is where you have to be honest with you - just to sit in the silence and stillness of your soul and have a one on one conversation with you - and God! You talk and then listen to God. No ego is present, no judgments are made - just the plain truth. I might guess several reasons but that would be planting seeds in an already overactive mind of judgment. You know or will remember what it is you are hiding from you.

Try seeing others as having an occupation, which they do, in their drama of life. Some are doctors, lawyers and some are in the porn industry. Nothing is wrong in our world until we label it wrong. And if you label something as wrong, you are labeling yourself as well. Just knowing you are judging others as you see yourself, should slow you down a bit in your judgments.

As 20, you are probably at the stage in life where you are appalled by what is presented to you and want your world to be according to your standards. Do you realize that your world is in your hand to be made according to how you want it? If you don't like what you are seeing, change your thoughts, for what you see is just your thoughts projected.

And Chris raises the question as to who cares if someone is the porn or not? The answer, and the only answer possible, is no one except you!

Keep reading and more will be revealed, and if you are anything like me, you will re-read and re-re-read Dyer on many occasions. What Dyer presents to you are tools for you to use on your spiritual path. Often times we have to re-read to discover how to use these tools. But never get to a point where you are saying - "Dyer says" - Dyer simply suggest various methods to you - you still must decide what to use.

Namaste - Ron

quingoff

21-09-2004 01:32:34

You always have a choice to ignore it
man i wish... I turn on the tv to watch the news and I see a freakin shampoo commercial, with sexual hints, look at a billboard, there it is, ahhh its everywhere, that type of thing is low energy, everything associated around it is negative. I try to find the good in everything like when Dr. dyer gave the example of the jewish gentleman in the concentration camp finding beauty in the dead floating fish head.

Nothing is wrong in our world until we label it wrong

How do you personally see the realities of the the topic being addressed?

Persistently seeing others as dishonest, lazy, sinful, and so on may mean that you need to feel superior. Constantly seeing others critically can be a way of compensating for something you fear.

Now what are you fearing?

I think maybe I can find a fear from the porn industry, loose morals etc. because I fear that I will never be able to find a girl with moral standards paralell to mine for I fear that since I am surronded by fifth, that brings forth a mindset of having no hope, or something I don't know.... and to tag on something besides issues mentioned above, I have O.C.D or obsesive compulsive disorder and finding a girl with similiar morals and finding one that is understanding to O.C.D, thats a doozie. That match critera for a mate cuts the choices to slim, with that thought process in mind I was freakin looking at the Practice of Brahmacharya http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahmacharya.htm, a hindi philosophy, man I sure hope samsura is true (cycle of lifes) cause this ones bringing on the hurt
I can see where that hidden fear is from...but dangit why's it have to be so complicated, my genetic makeup and envirorment growing up created the OCD I have now, my faith in source flucuates
Eehhh... I'm just a troubled individual, grasping for hope, don't mind me I'm just venting I guess, I don't know

I appeciate your response and wouldn't mind hearing others beliefs, leaving on a possitive note, I only send love and kindness your way

michael S

21-09-2004 09:01:07

Ron, again your comments are most appreciated. I really empathize with quingoff. Using sexual images to sell everything from shampoo to cars is nothing new. quingoff? the first step is to minimize your exposure to TV. Would you believe that I haven't owned a television for over 12 years?
The media borders on hyperventilation in their attempt to captivate peoples attention with fleeting images of the latest orgasm inducing shampoo, coffee maker, you name it. Let's remember the fundamental INTENT of sex, which of course is procreation. Procreation that is ideally initiated by two loving people, with the INTENT of nurturing a unique and exquisite individual. A family requires committment, fidelity, restraint - love, trust...INTENT, priceless commodities these days. I'll admit that I'm just scratching the surface of Wayne's latest book, but it's a wonderful read!

Ron

21-09-2004 09:41:20

guingoff - May I recommend to you a book that might just possibly hold some answers for you. If you have read it, read it again. It is "Why People Don't Heal and How They Can" by Caroline Myss. Wayne talks somewhat about woundology, but Caroline I think coined the phrase and her book is all about that "illness" that many of had or have. A few excerpts from her book say a lot

"When we define ourselves by our wounds, we burden and lose our physical and spiritual energy and open ourselves to the risk of illness…people do not heal because, either consciously or unconsciously, they have more faith in deeply potent belief patterns that interfere with healing than they do in their ability to heal…The most effective way to break the controlling force of a myth is to recognize that you personally believe it, and that while you may share this belief with others, it is a belief and not necessarily a fact…There are 5 central myths about healing that can fully take charge of a person’s mental and emotional strength and make healing nearly impossible…1) My life is defined by my wound; 2) Being healthy means being alone; 3) Feeling pain means being destroyed by pain; 4) All illness is the result of negativity, and we are damaged at our core; and 5) True change is impossible."

Now why am I bringing up woundology? Because you are telling me you wear a label called OCD and because of that this is the way you are. I trust you have read more than this one book by Wayne? Wayne states that illness, sickness can be cured where the cause is - in our mind. When someone tells us we are this or that, we may deny it but the seed is planted and often times we tend to it so that it may grow. Ever go to a 12 Step meeting - any kind - and listen as people introduce themselves. The ones who use the adjective "recovering" before their wound are the one who are seeing themselves healed. Others continue to see themselves with an illness. Healing oneself is a choice the individual makes.

What you are looking for is not out there on some site or practice or whatever. It is within you and you can tap into it as soon as you stop believing in what you say you are. I am not talking of a "miracle" here, but I am talking about making a change in the way you want to live your life. It is not about genetics, it is not about environment, but it is about all the choices you made along the way to accept the beliefs about you that you have. You are not a troubled individual grasping for hope - you are calling for the Love you fear - unconditional love - no strings attached love. You are loved by your Higher Power - God - or whatever term works for you. You are a flawless being not a form that believes it is an example OCD walking around.

You are not here on this board by accident. You are not opening your soul to a bunch of strangers here by accident. Being here for you is being in your right and perfect place - it is the start of your change of your beliefs - what Wayne talks so much about. Those changes are not just for others - they are for you - but you have to believe they are possible and then accept them as possible.

So to begin with, throw away the tags, labels, and names you carry. You may find it painful and fearful to rid yourself of them, but do it anyway. Remember each tag, label, and name is only a thought at best. And this process may appear to you to be very slow, but believe in it. The changes will be subtle at first, then more noticeable as you move on.

If watching TV, etc causes you a problem, take the advice from Michael and don't watch TV - don't read the newspapers, etc. Your life will go on without your involvement in those areas.

I believe you want to change. I believe in your honesty bearing yourself to us. I believe in you - do you believe in you?

Namaste - Ron

joshua

25-09-2004 23:06:53

I too used to feel guilty for making judgements about people and things...but what amazing discovery I had was that I was actually judging myself as well...and then I stopped and tried changing the term "judge" to just making an observation. It's less harsh then a judgement. It is ok to make an observation..If someone gave you something to eat..and you didnt like it. would you be so hard on yourself because you were making a judgement on the food? Probably not, you would just easily not eat it.. try looking at the porn industry the same way...as well as ask yourself if there is something within yourself that you are not allowing yourself the pleasure of this industry. I too have made these observations...and at times I just remind myself that this is all part of the universe...
and if you think about it, if there wasnt a porn industry out there..think how many more rapists might be out there physically hurting people.
Hope this was any good advice,
hugs,
Josh Zuckerman

quingoff

26-09-2004 20:42:42

I stopped and tried changing the term "judge" to just making an observation. It's less harsh then a judgement.

but the end result is the same in most cases, thats merely changing the language and changing the language in some situation can work, especially in philosophy class, but observation judgement is the same, you make the observation that that person is stupid, you make the judgement that the person is stupid same thing , well I guess you can convince yourself it is differnet if you practice it enough, I salute you for finding an avenue that helps you though

It is ok to make an observation..If someone gave you something to eat..and you didnt like it. would you be so hard on yourself because you were making a judgement on the food?

making the comparision between the porn industry and food is a lot different

as well as ask yourself if there is something within yourself that you are not allowing yourself the pleasure of this industry

pleasure of the industry? I make the "observation" based on my interpretation of life, that is so far, that, human sexual insticts are merely a hardwire reponse to the primitive but still active parts of our brain responding to stimuli, now these instints hinder all reasoning centers for they are so strong, I find that a industry based soley on insticts that cause all sorts of evil and bad energy, should be judged upon only because in this day and age you can't simply ignore it unless you want to live in one of those communities that were created in the 60's with all the the flower child, whatever, yes you can get rid of the tv, but it still lingers in the minds of most all humans on the face of this planet, in lots of cases you have to judge otherwise we'd have a society of anrachy, and yes most judgements people make are wrong, I have been making judgments about a myraid of things all my life and I try to change my minds previous thought processes on the type of judgemtns I can and am willing to change, but when it strikes down to the naked morallity of a soul its different, porn insustry, loose morals etc. strike down to the nitty gritty


think how many more rapists might be out there physically hurting people.

but look how many rapist it has created, the types of people that become rapists, a large percentage of them are rapists from watching hours after hours of mindless smut which built up lots of sexual frustrationg, so much so that the primitave instints that block most and all reasoning take over and, boom instant rapist, created from the sexually charged america (Dang I can find some good in this conversation, I writing to some extent like wayne dyer said that when he writes he surrenders and lets go, letting go and letting god, might need a editor though lol lol )

In my mind as of now, the porn idustry is evil, I love evil, why? because without evil how can we reconize the good in things. but the way and type of evil that is presented to me is hard to deal with, bring back leave it to beaver times! )

Man I wish I could attain that let it be attitude towards these morally charged issues, the let it be attitiude that I use for many things works out great for a large deal of issues but something that cuts down to the strings of the moral fiber is just something that cannot simply be said let it be to... I hope that I can get through this maze of complex thought processes on these types of issues, but it is sure difficult

Ron

27-09-2004 11:02:07

The words we have made in our world of illusion hold only the meaning we have given them - take for example - observation and judgment. Judment is our judging another based on what we think the other should be doing or behaving based on what we believe is best. It is more often than not, an accurate way of seeing ourselves from an unconscious perspective - as we judge another we see ourselves.

Observation, on the other hand, is just observation - observing another without judgment - seeing them as if for the first time with nothing to compare them against, including your own thoughts of how you want your world to be. Dyer speaks of stepping out of your body and simply observing yourself as well - see you without comparisons of any kind - just see yourself as if for the first time. Generally speaking, doing this causes one to laugh at oneself for how silly one appears to be.

Wayne also speaks of our making the world we live in - we are the creators of what we call our world. Then why do you suppose we are so judgmental of a world we make? Probaly because satisfaction will never be found in it. If you see your world as your own story, with you the star, director, writer, etc. and all the extras in your story are you as well, then you will see that what you are judging is simply you - your story. As the writer of your drama, you can change the story-line at any given moment.

Did you ever think that "morality" is nothing more than laws we made within our world, and like everything else within our world, they are there simply to keep us agitated and in chaos. True that we live in a world of duality - good/bad - but we can see only the good if we choose to see it. And we can see it without viewing its opposite. You realize of course, from reading Wayne's books, that your "morality issues" are really fears you are holding within - fears you have not addressed? Find those fears, walk through those fears, and see them for what they are - illusions created by your mind.

Namaste - Ron