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Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins - Your Thoughts?

chris knight

05-05-2004 23:37:29

Power vs. Force The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior -- is a book by David R. Hawkins that wass published in 2002 by the same publisher as Wayne's current works (Hay House).

Hawkin's book attempts to uncover the quest for an organized understanding of the nature of pure consciousness... The study of kinesiology is an obvious path that he has followed and attempted to turn into useful behavior-changing or understanding applications.

Here is an Amazon.com link to this book

What are your thoughts?

Have you tried the arm muscle test that Wayne mentions and Hawkins discusses in his book? What were your results?


05-06-2004 16:15:39

For the first 3 or 4 years of being in a class of A Course in Miracles, I had the experience of being a client to practitioner of TFH. Many things were shown to me, many things happen while going to her, many things had me questioning just who I was. Several years later, I took classes in TFH and became a practitioner myself. I stop almost as fast I started! Testing a body for a response from the mind had me questioning the Course. I had to decide on what I was going to believe. I chose the Course. I have all my material and often refresh myself in its studies, but I do not practice it nor go to a practitioner myself. Where I was as a client changed when I chose the Course. I am not saying that one choice was better than another - it simply was where I was and what I felt at peace doing.

Any other practitioners out there? Care to comment on this practice?

Namaste - Ron


04-07-2004 14:21:33

I tried the arm muscle test on my two teenage sons. It really works! They are weak when they lie. I had them lie on purpose and they couldn't resist at all. This could come in very handy. twisted



27-10-2004 19:00:19

A wonderful thing that has come out of Hawkins' writings - it seems - is the realization of the "power" one already possesses. )


28-10-2004 10:13:37

"Thoughts increase by being given away.
The more who believe in them the stronger they become... "
A Course in Miracles )


28-10-2004 11:25:03

The complete quote is " Thoughts increase by being given away.
The more who believe in them the stronger they become. Everything is an idea. How, then, can giving and losing be associated?"

Perhaps, just perhaps, this is saying that "thoughts" increase simply because we have more and more - it is what we do in this world. And the more we believe in our thoughts, the stronger they appear to us - such as the world we see. The world is just our thughts to which we have given value. Everything we see before is a thought. And a thought is how this dream, this ego, came to be. We even say in words we try to understand that we are a "Thought of God." But God, being simply God, has no thoughts for God just IS. It is comforting for us to think this, but the truth is that it is only necessary in our world - in Truth we are One with God and forever have and shall be.

Namaste - Ron


29-10-2004 07:57:23

Hi Ron and everyone..
I studeied ACIM for about 5 or 6 years and I am almost through reading Hawkins "Force vs Power".
You said you had to chose because you felt a conflict in philosophy?

I just wanted to know if you are willing to share more about that.
I did do the muscle test on my son and it was amazing how acurate it was.
He also did it on me as I posed question to the universe if it was in support of various actions I was contemplating.

I'm not sure how to post a reply to a certain message ina thread so I put your name in the subject


29-10-2004 18:46:14

I'm not familiar with the book or test - anyone care to expand??? I'm greatly interested.


30-10-2004 10:35:38

The best summary of the book I can offer is that it deals with different levels of consciousness - awareness and energy fields that we can attract.
The muscle test suggest that the body knows what makes it go weak or what makes it go strong. Example A picture of Hitler would make most people go weak, a picure of Mother Theresa would make you feel strong.

It's a great read. Amazon.com has the book available in used and new condition.


30-10-2004 17:06:07

Hi Nan - and others as well - the problem I had after I took several classes on "Muscle Testing - TFH" was this. I was a student getting deep into the Course - it was a tool on a spiritual path that I was usind and felt not only comfortable with, but satisfied and peaceful. As you know, the Course states that we are not this body, that this world does not exist, etc. Well, in TFH, I was to believe that I could get the mind of another person to respond to the questions I was asking, by reflexes in the body. I did not feel comfortable with TFH. I had alread purchased a massage table (portable) and had everything in place, but this not the way I was to go. It wasn't that I neither believed nor mis-believed in TFH - it just wasn't for me. And old habits are hard to break - I find myself occasionally testing myself on choices of food I will eat, etc. The mind is the most powerful tool we have - we are the mind - we create the world we see by projection thoughts from our mind. But we can also use the mind to work against us as well. But within us lies all knowledge, all answers, all truth - and it was from there that I listen and followed. Hope this helps, but if you have more questions, ask away.

Namaste - Ron


03-11-2004 13:21:52

This is a great , great book.It has really made me think. I do refer to it often. I just purchased some VHS tapes by Hawkin's as well.
Invest $15 and get it.

chris knight

28-12-2004 17:07:05

I was reading a very negative review of this book

The mathematics in this book is a joke

"If you have a degree in math, physics, engineering or something similar, this book can pretty entertaining. It is fun to pick apart,but as a source of truth it is worthless."

And curious if anyone has any insights to counter the negative review?

I have not read the book as I was just not attracted to it or its contents but Wayne has a connection with Hawkins and thus I wanted to better understand this book and its place.


03-01-2005 21:40:18


This book is interesting. I found it to be a very elaborate and interesting attempt of a great scientific and mathematical mind to find the language with which to create a convincing argument for that which is neither 'scientific' nor 'mathematical'. In response to the criticism you mentioned, the fact that one is trying to define the non-scientific by scientific means does not necessarily negate nor diminish the validity of the base activity it just shows that the 'scientific method' does not have the ability to explain everything to the 'nth' degree.

For years I have watched many such attempts at the scientfic world facing those realities of life, humanity, and the universe that do not readily fit into either a scientific model or a scientific ideation (or as my friends call it 'the religion of science'). While some of those working within the world of science seem to gleefully swoop in and tear these types of work apart, I feel this is a showing of ideological arrogance more than a proof or dis-proof of fact or reality. Trying to explain the most simple or most obvious is often times the most difficult -- it is simplicity itself that two plus two equals four, but to define exactly why is a nearly Herculean task.

While being raised of a science teacher parent and within a mainstream culture of science as omniscient, I know that some things are valid regardless of their ability or lack of ability to be explained within scientific terms. The auther tried for the Herculean and did an amazing job.

As an aside contrary to the common thought process, the practice of 'muscle testing' is neither new nor innovative. It does not fit into the 'scientific' models of medicine -- or those models within the AMA defined medical realism. The practice is common, however, in the healing/religious/spiritual practices of innumerable north and south American continent indigenous cultures as well as many Pacific Island indigenous cultures. Unfortunately the U.S. mainstream medical community has labeled such time honored skills and truth as 'quackery' and mainstream culture has dismissed it as 'New Age' -- a term they joyfully imbue with volumes of derision (although I still have not quite figured out why New Age is considered so).



10-08-2005 15:18:01

Greetings -

I'm involved in A.A. and this book is a must read for any one in a 12 step program. He talks about many of the things that are discussed in the fellowships and with the steps. The map of consciousness really struck a chord with me it was a soft explosion of meaning because those early stages are so recognizable. It was very refreshing to hear someone like Hawkins speak so highly of 12 step programs (you'd be surprised how many folks view them with feelings of disdain).



01-09-2005 12:53:16

I tried it on my wife and it didnt work at all. I was very dissapointed.